Norway Attacks

[rocknroll41]

My heart goes out to these lost souls  :'(

do u guys think the dude's influence was videogames or his religious beliefs or something else entirely?

[ALLLOCKEDUPINSIDE]

My heart goes out to these lost souls  :'(

do u guys think the dude's influence was videogames or his religious beliefs or something else entirely?

Most people who do acts of violence out of video games are teens.

He was anti-multiculturalist, anti-islamification and right-wing militant nationalist. So it must've been both religion and politics.

EDIT: Looked it up; yes, it was.

[rocknroll41]

Most people who do acts of violence out of video games are teens.

He was anti-multiculturalist, anti-islamification and right-wing militant nationalist. So it must've been both religion and politics.

EDIT: Looked it up; yes, it was.

wow, i read that too now but also found out he played videogames often (more than average) so it must've been both in way (probably more on religion tho). he probs also had some odd childhood theyre researching now. I wouldn't be surprised if a documentary were to air sometime later this year

[Max_Power]

Its retarded when people say "hes influenced by violent games/tv/music etc". If the guy is mentally sound, he would know the difference between reality and fiction. This guy is clearly a psychopath, the violent media may be a catalyst, but its never the cause.

[chezequerz]

Soul we're going to have to accept we interpreted it differently


did anyone notice how chillingly intelligent he is in his manifesto? He's clearly researched his beliefs to a T.

[SoulMonster]

You liberals will breed more of them though. The left has truly lost its way; more concerned about vegans, lesbo's and karma these days.

Uhm. You don't know anything about my political allegiance nor does it seem you know much about Norway.

Fuck common sense and law and order, eh? Let him out in 21 years if he acts repentant? It's ironic you acting all christian like.

"Christian"? It's called humanism.

And we don't know how long he will be imprisoned, you might not have read my post about "forvaring" earlier but this mechanism opens up for life time in jail in Norway.

[SoulMonster]

My heart goes out to these lost souls  :'(

do u guys think the dude's influence was videogames or his religious beliefs or something else entirely?

Norway has been a pretty homogeneous society up until 30 years ago when we received the first immigrants from Pakistan. We still haven't solved out all problems and friction that arise from gradually moving into a multicultural society. Lately there has been a growing Internet community where right wing people blame many of our problems (not that we have many) on the influx of Muslims. As far as I understand it, and I have been discussing religion and politics with these people since the late 90's (I had to Google to find out if I have ever discussed anything with the madman), these people have largely been able to discuss without much opposition and have egged each other on, especially building their own apocalyptic prophesy of how Norway will look in a few decades if we don't purge the country from the influence of Islam. So basically, the Internet has provided a home for different fringe people with radical opinions where they have been able to grow their particular world views without much resistance from other people with a different view or from reality itself.

The nutcase in this particular case went further. He not only thought that the influx of Muslims would destroy Norway and our culture, but that it was okay to go to more or less any means to stop it. Exactly why he thought violence was a solution, I don't know. He was absolutely interested in violent games, but that doesn't explain why he thought warfare against his countrymen, especially young kids, was a solution, does it? He must have been crazy to think that. He lived in his own world where normal rules didn't exist.

Such people will always exist, because people with mental instabilities will always exist.

[chezequerz]

(I had to Google to find out if I have ever discussed anything with the madman)

did you?

[SoulMonster]

did you?

No, I couldn't find any evidence of that. But I know many of the people he is inspired by (e.g. Fjordman) and believe I know where he is coming from. I am not saying that every right wing radical who believed that Europe was on the brink of collapse because of cultural "dilution" was a peer of this madman and would condone his actions, no, not at all. But that is the environment where he came from, not the Norwegian Lutheral Church , the right wing political parties, or computer games. Those were the people who stimulated his hatred, who egged him on to his dangerous path. But his solution to what he perceived was a problem, is, as far as I know, completely his own. It was a product of a diseased mind.

Reading his manifest it is obvious that he went to war on our society. He wanted to awake like-minded and create a wide-spread revolution by attacking institutions and people responsible for upholding our political direction and hence "diluting our culture". He intended to spread his manifest to people he believed would by sympathetic to his cause.

Norway was at war. But it was presumably a one-man-war. I don't think his horrible actions nor his insane ramblings will recruit any other people to his deranged revolution. Thus the war is over now. This reminds me of a nice quote from a guy who in many ways agreed with the madman's vision, but never would have committed crimes himself:

In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none. In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief [Erik Naggum].

The madman fought against something, our way of life, our humanism, and he lost. But to him the fight had all the value. He is pleased now, he looks on himself as a martyr. A knight.

We fought for something, our values, our democracy, the future of our children. And we might have won, but it feels only like losing and the relief has yet to come to most of us.

[SoulMonster]

Another disturbing picture from the massacre:

[SoulMonster]

And we don't know how long he will be imprisoned, you might not have read my post about "forvaring" earlier but this mechanism opens up for life time in jail in Norway.

It seems like we got an addition to our laws in 2008 which opens up for 30 years imprisonment, and it looks like he will be charged against this.

[SoulMonster]

His lawyer has made a few remarks to the press now. Apparently the madman has a very different view of how it is to be in prison in Norway that what it really is. He actually expected to be tortured (!). That is a very strange delusion indeed, since Norway is very much anti-torture. I wonder how this unexpected meeting with humanity might affect his world view. He also expects to be imprisoned for the rest of his life. What this suggests to me is that the threat of torture and life in prison was not a strong enough deterrent to prevent him from committing his awful crimes.

[SoulMonster]

The moving text messages between a young girl (age 16), Julie, who was on Utøya, and survived, and her mother as the massacre progressed:

5:42 PM: Julie:
Mommy, tell the police they must hurry. People are dying here!

Mother:
I am working on it, Julie. The police is coming. Do you dare to call me?

Julie:
No.

Julie:
Tell the police there's an insane man walking around and shooting people

Julie:
They must hurry!

Mother:
The police knows, they have received many messages. Everything will be okay, Julie. The police calls us now. Give us signs of life every 5 minutes, please?

Julie:
Ok

Julie:
We are scared!

Mother:
I understand, my dear. Keep hidden, don't move anywhere! The police is already on their way, if not already there! Do you see any wounded or dead?

Julie:
We are hiding among the rocks on the shore.

Moter:
Good! Shall I ask granddad to come down and pick you up when it is safe again? You have the option.

Julie:
Yes.

Mother:
We'll call granddad immediately.

Julie:
I love you even if I sometimes yell a bit :-*

Julie:
And I don't have panic even though I am very scared.

Mor:
I know, my dear. We love you, too! Do you still hear shots?

Julie:
No

6.15 PM: Mother:
Do you hear anything from any others from Troms? Granddad is on his way.

Julie:
The police is here.

Mother:
The shooter is said to be in police uniform. Be careful! What is happening to you know?

6.30 PM: Julie:
We don't know.

Mother:
Can you talk now?

Julie:
No.

Julie:
He is still shooting!

Mother:
Jørgen swam to safety. Just talked to his father.

Mother:
This is all over the news now, full attention on Utøya. Be careful! When given the opportunity, get off the island and come with granddad to Hamar.

Julie:
I am still alive.

Mother:
And thank God.

Julie:
We are waiting to be picked up by the police.

Julie:
We just heard shooting, we didn't dare to move.

Mother:
Good! People are being evacuated now, according to the TV.

Julie:
We hope to be saved soon. Can't they take him soon?!!

Mother:
Terror police is there, and they work to get him.

Julie:
OK

Mother:
Shall we try to get a flight ticket home tomorrow?

Julie:
I don't have time to think about that now.

Mother:
I understand.

Julie:
Do you know if they have caught him?

Mother:
Will keep you updated, my dear. We are glued to the TV...

Mother:
Hi, are you there?

Julie:
Yes. The helicopters are flying around us.

Mother:
At least you have been seen then?

Julie:
They are looking for people in the water, we are not being picked up yet!

7.01 PM: Julie:
What do they say on the news?

Mother:
Police in boats over to Utøya, nothing new. No solution with the gunman, so stay put. Wait for someone to pick you up.

Mother:
They have caught him!

[chezequerz]

how the hell did you get that? it was very interesting to read

[SoulMonster]

how the hell did you get that? it was very interesting to read

Those text messages? There was an interview with the mother and girl in a Norwegian newspaper where those messages were published, I translated them. Here's the interview: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080749