Allied Powers Declare Military Action Against Libya

[chezequerz]

Claiming that racial genocide is to follow isn't speculation? Holy shit you must be a clairvoyant!

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/07/07/libya-ethnic-cleansing/
http://thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/africa-mainmenu-27/9005-libyan-rebels-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing-black-genocide
http://www.infowars.com/natos-libyan-operation-mass-graves-and-ethnic-cleansing/

i'm so clairvoyant i can see what has ALREADY happened even Amnesty International and NATO have admitted knowledge of it but i suppose they'll just immediately stop now eh?

It's never easy to go from a totalitarian regime into a democracy, but many countries have managed to do it so one is allowed to hope the same thing will happen this time in Libya.
perhaps but that's not really the issue although i would point out that Zimbabwe have "Democracy" on paper too. Whether they maintain a fair democratic system remains to be seen.

 Unless of course one doesn't care about history and all the precedents from where it has happened successfully, or turn a blind eye to all the successful democracy origins and rather just focus on those occasions where a new totalitarian regime has sprung out of the chaos, or is a racist who doesn't believe Arabs are able to create functional democracies.
I'm neither a racist nor that much of a pessimist. Palestine maintain a fairly reliable democratic system my point is that these lot have already been shown to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity that are arguably worse than Gaddafi.

I prefer to be optimistic about the future of Libya while still remaining realistic enough to know that there is a significant possibility that the new regime might not be much better than the one under Khaddafi.
I've seen no reason to believe it will be

I think every libyan would take "might not be better than the old regime" over "the old regime"

how about "already worse" over "bad".

[Max_Power]

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/07/07/libya-ethnic-cleansing/
http://thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/africa-mainmenu-27/9005-libyan-rebels-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing-black-genocide
http://www.infowars.com/natos-libyan-operation-mass-graves-and-ethnic-cleansing/

i'm so clairvoyant i can see what has ALREADY happened even Amnesty International and NATO have admitted knowledge of it but i suppose they'll just immediately stop now eh?
how about "already worse" over "bad".

Holy shit, crazy things happening during a civil revolution? Unheard of! Oh and what's this, the latest accusations of "ethnic cleansing" is at least a month old? That makes for such valuable forecast of what's to come.

[chezequerz]

Holy shit, crazy things happening during a civil revolution? Unheard of! Oh and what's this, the latest accusations of "ethnic cleansing" is at least a month old? That makes for such valuable forecast of what's to come.

Big things don't usually change in the course a month.


what about a day old though?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8845636/Libya-Human-Rights-Watch-calls-on-NTC-to-probe-mass-executions-as-53-bodies-are-found.html

[Max_Power]

Oh shit! People dying in a civil revolution, especially in a country not as developed as the united states? News of the century right there, and it's not like Ghaddafi killed just as many, if not more people. And since when did killing Ghaddafi supporters become ethnic cleansing? If you're going to keep bringing up some irrelevant point, at least keep it consistent.

[chezequerz]

Oh shit! People dying in a civil revolution, especially in a country not as developed as the united states? News of the century right there, and it's not like Ghaddafi killed just as many, if not more people. And since when did killing Ghaddafi supporters become ethnic cleansing? If you're going to keep bringing up some irrelevant point, at least keep it consistent.

People dying is not the same as people being executed.

If he killed just as many what's the point of removing him?

I've linked you 4 articles on racial cleansing hell here's another http://nsnbc.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/ethnic-cleansing-genocide-and-the-tawergha/ that's also from yesterday





what exactly is YOUR point? "that man is a dictator who killed loads of people, lets replace him with men who have done the same often based purely on race"

[pawnshop-guitars]

The Human Rights Watch have found a mass grave of 53 Gaddafi loyalists who apparently had their hands tied and were then shot:

The bodies of 53 Gaddafi loyalists have been found at a hotel in the Libyan city of Sirte after apparently being executed, a human rights group says.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) said the victims - some of whom had their hands bound - died about a week ago.

It is the latest accusation of atrocities in Libya committed by both sides during the eight-month conflict.

Libya's new rulers have denied any involvement in abuses and have urged Libyans to forego reprisal attacks.

The discovery comes a day after jubilant crowds across the country took to the streets as the interim government declared national liberation, three days after the death of Muammar Gaddafi.

The acting Libyan leader, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, said the National Transitional Council (NTC) had formed a committee to investigate how Col Gaddafi died.

There have been accusations he was executed by NTC troops after his capture in Sirte.

His body is in a cold storage facility in Misrata.

It has been on public view, but the commander at the refrigeration unit told the BBC that the door has now been shut and that the last person has viewed Gaddafi's body.

'Hands bound'
 
The bodies of the Gaddafi loyalists were found on Sunday on the lawn of the abandoned Hotel Mahari in Sirte, which saw heavy fighting last week as NTC forces battled for control of the city.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
This requires the immediate attention of the Libyan authorities to investigate what happened and hold accountable those responsible”
End Quote
Peter Bouckaert
 
HRW
 "Some had their hands bound behind their backs when they were shot," Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement.

"This requires the immediate attention of the Libyan authorities to investigate what happened and hold accountable those responsible."

It is not clear who carried out the killings.

HRW said they believed the hotel had been in the hands of anti-Gaddafi forces from Misrata before the killings, and it remained in their control until the fighting in Sirte stopped on 20 October.

On the entrance and walls of the hotel were the names of several anti-Gaddafi brigades from Misrata, HRW added.

"The evidence suggests that some of the victims were shot while being held as prisoners, when that part of Sirte was controlled by anti-Gaddafi brigades who appear to act outside the control of the NTC," Mr Bouckaert said.

Many of the victims suffered bullet wounds to the head, according to an AFP reporter who saw them.

Human Rights Watch also said the remains of 95 people had been found at the site where Gaddafi was captured. They appeared to have died that same day.

HRW, Amnesty International and other rights groups regularly document incidents of atrocities suspected of being carried out by pro- and anti-Gaddafi forces during the conflict. These include several mass killing sites found in August.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15428360

[Max_Power]

People dying is not the same as people being executed.

If he killed just as many what's the point of removing him?

I've linked you 4 articles on racial cleansing hell here's another http://nsnbc.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/ethnic-cleansing-genocide-and-the-tawergha/ that's also from yesterday





what exactly is YOUR point? "that man is a dictator who killed loads of people, lets replace him with men who have done the same often based purely on race"

Yes, that article is published yesterday... saying an investigation began looking into what happened 2 months ago. Is it really THAT hard to look at the dates and see that your so called ongoing ethnic cleansing was just isolated incidents because if it was ongoing, we'd hear more about it.

Secondly, Ghaddafi was removed because he would have killed more than the casualties of the Libyan operations, that's like saying "WWII killed more people than Hitler did, so why fight WWII?" Simple logic.

What's my point? If you haven't figured it out by now, I really don't know why I'm wasting my time here, but I'll spell it out for you one more time: Any person with a shred of common sense would risk an uncertain future to improve their current situation. The POSSIBILITY of someone just as bad is Ghaddafi, even if it was 99.999%, is better than 100% chance of having an evil dictator.

[abaraxas]

The Human Rights Watch have found a mass grave of 53 Gaddafi loyalists who apparently had their hands tied and were then shot:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15428360

Whats the problem?

[chezequerz]

Yes, that article is published yesterday... saying an investigation began looking into what happened 2 months ago. Is it really THAT hard to look at the dates and see that your so called ongoing ethnic cleansing was just isolated incidents because if it was ongoing, we'd hear more about it.

there's a list of articles going back months, most are mere days apart if you like i'll give you all of the links.

Secondly, Ghaddafi was removed because he would have killed more than the casualties of the Libyan operations, that's like saying "WWII killed more people than Hitler did, so why fight WWII?" Simple logic.

now are we playing speculation eh? Comparing war and the holocaust is not even remotely the same.

What's my point? If you haven't figured it out by now, I really don't know why I'm wasting my time here, but I'll spell it out for you one more time: Any person with a shred of common sense would risk an uncertain future to improve their current situation. The POSSIBILITY of someone just as bad is Ghaddafi, even if it was 99.999%, is better than 100% chance of having an evil dictator.

and my point is it's known they're worse so they've gained nothing.

[Max_Power]

Right, because I forgot you're fucking clairvoyant and can see the future.

[chezequerz]

i don't need to see the future i can see the "present" and the past.

[Max_Power]

So youre just gonna sit there, with a straight face, and tell me you can predith, with 100% accuracy, what is going to happen in libya, by looking at 2 month old news.

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

Well, the fact that the National Transitional Council has said that sharia law will be part of all legislation in Libya is a big heads up

[jplpool]

 

[jplpool]

Oh dear god, Gaddafi was an Everton fan? 

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/3pm/Colonel-Gaddafi-is-an-Everton-fan-plus-Newcastle-United-launch-fat-fan-T-shirts-in-honour-of-fan-Beefy-plus-Wolves-fans-Jamie-O-Hara-and-Danielle-Lloyd-chant-Steve-Anglesey-s-3PM-column-article707967.html