Religion/Spiritualism etc...

[rkgirl]

obviously, you missed the entire point I was trying to make. You apparently see only one side, yours.
Fine... then there can be no discussion as I do not agree with you and you do not agree with me...

[SoulMonster]

obviously, you missed the entire point I was trying to make. You apparently see only one side, yours.
Fine... then there can be no discussion as I do not agree with you and you do not agree with me...

Of course we can discuss. You think people's opinions should be respected. I say that not necessarily so. Isn't that a perfect setup for a discussion?

[ronws]

Of course we can discuss. You think people's opinions should be respected. I say that not necessarily so. Isn't that a perfect setup for a discussion?

I think you are forgetting that this is a thread on religion and spiritualism, therefore all opinions count. If this were a thread on evolution only as a scientific theory with examination of the various evidence, then I might agree that not all opinions might be valid. But then, where is the dividing line? For example, when I have discussed cosmology with people, they may sometimes point to Quantum Mechanics as a basis for their thoughts, even though QM is a largely unproven theory and some aspects of it can't be proven because we don't have the technology. In fact, if we did, such technology would prove physically that Einstein was wrong. Then that would render proponent of Einstein's theories without a leg to stand on. But this discussion is not even about hard science. It's about people's opinion regarding the inscrutable.

How's about dialing it back, just a bit?

[SoulMonster]

I think you are forgetting that this is a thread on religion and spiritualism, therefore all opinions count. If this were a thread on evolution only as a scientific theory with examination of the various evidence, then I might agree that not all opinions might be valid.

Of course all opinions count, but there's no point in discussing something if we all agree. That would hardly make a discussion . I was ready to discuss creationism vs. evolution just as I've discussed atheims vs. theism. That's what discussion forums are for.

[axlwannabe]

Of course all opinions count, but there's no point in discussing something if we all agree. That would hardly make a discussion . I was ready to discuss creationism vs. evolution just as I've discussed atheims vs. theism. That's what discussion forums are for.

Oh i see it's like having a debate now...The question is always what discussion forums should be?

[Casino321]

Cool, this is becoming an evolution debate.

 

Ah, so with "adaptable" you mean "evolvable"? Then you believe that humans have evolved, just like other animals. Great.

Not neccesarily, there is a difference between adapting and evolving.

An animal adapts to it's surrounding area, fact. Take Darwin's Finchs etc.

But if by evolution you mean that all animals are striving to better and further themselves, regardless of their situation, then that's not neccesarily proven. Take alligators. They've existed for a long, long time doing exactly what they do, because it works. If there was some major shake up in their micro-climate then they might very well have to adapt to suit their new surroundings, but otherwise will continue to exist as they have done forever. Therefore, they do not 'evolve' in the Scientific sence. So accepting adapation is not necesarily accepting evolution.

Just playing Devil's advocate here, folks 

[ronws]

An animal adapts to it's surrounding area, fact. Take Darwin's Finchs etc.

But if by evolution you mean that all animals are striving to better and further themselves, regardless of their situation, then that's not neccesarily proven.

And this is a key point I tried to raise elsewhere. Within evolution, there was a partial debate over radial vs. non-radial adaption. Radial is the notion that a species evolves because of a need to adapt. Non-radial, which has more proof, is the notion that evolution is a series of mutations and the surviving mutations pass on the traits. For example, we have an appendix but it doesn't really do anything nowadays. With radial adaption, we would have lost it long ago when it quit serving whatever purpose it had. But yet, there it is, about the size of your thumb, and it can kill you if it ruptures. Non-radial allows for the continued existance of the appendix because the mutation of human without an appendix never survived long enough to create a species without. This idea offends some people because it shows there is no "master plan." We either survive or we don't.

[ICANCU]

Spirituality means waking up. Most people, even though they don’t know it, are asleep. They’re born asleep, they live asleep, they marry in their sleep, they breed children in their sleep, they die in their sleep without ever waking up. They never understand the loveliness and the beauty of this thing that we call human existence. You know— all mystics— Catholic, Christian, non-Christian, no matter what their theology, no matter what their religion— are unanimous on one thing: that all is well, all is well. Though everything is a mess, all is well. Strange paradox, to be sure. But, tragically, most people never get to see that all is well because they are asleep. They are having a nightmare.

[axlwannabe]

This people will listen and listen but not understand.
They will look and look but not see,
                 because their minds are dull
                        and they have stopped up their ears.

Otherwise, their eyes would see,
                their ears would hear, their mind would understand,
                        and they would turn to me


                                                           says God.

Many of God's people wanted very much to see what "you" see but they could not.
                                               and to hear what "you" hear  but they did not.

Who are these people?  And who are "you"?

[axlwannabe]

This people will listen and listen but not understand.
They will look and look but not see,
                 because their minds are dull
                        and they have stopped up their ears.

Otherwise, their eyes would see,
                their ears would hear, their mind would understand,
                        and they would turn to me


                                                           says God.

Many of God's people wanted very much to see what "you" see but they could not.
                                               and to hear what "you" hear  but they did not.

Who are these people?  And who are "you"?

Oh I forgot to quote Matthew 13.14 - 15

[gunner22]

I'm an atheist, thanks to god.

[ronws]

I'm an atheist, thanks to god.

Rimshot - ba doomp, tsh!

[Estella]

I'm an atheist, thanks to god.

that's good if the last part of the sentence doesn't mean anything for you 

[gunner22]

that's good if the last part of the sentence doesn't mean anything for you 

I wish I could understand what you mean.

[Xtina]

I'm an atheist, thanks to god.

why are you thanking to God if you don't belive in him?  Probably that's what Estella meant in her quote.

Anyway I do belive in God, I consider myself spiritual person, more than religious,in a way that I belive in some great spiritual power, but I can't accept all standpoints of a church, all that hipocricy, spending to much money for the needs of church instead for the needs of citizens,or for reall humanitarian purposes. In my country there's are lot of people who can't afford a decent flat and priests lives much better than most of population. In purpose to provide natality, priests advices married couples to have lot of children, they would like to forbid contraception. Who are they to tell me how many children will I have, they are not even a women,they will never give a birth, or feed those kids. There's to much of critisism from the church, which is politicized in the same time. There's no much spirituality in all this things... I don't go to church, I can pray in my living room and I don't like organized religions. I think spirituality should be individual,not collective issue and on the other hand it really should be importand in life of every human, because we are all souls "dressed" in our body, which should be replaced with a new one, like an old clothes, after our physical dead in a new incarnation. Although I've been raised as a catolic, I can't say that catholic religion is more reliable than any other. Somebody belive in evolution, somebody in Adam and Eve, I can accept all those standpoints. Only idea I can't accept that we are only flesh and blood, that we disappear when our physical body dies, cause if we come from somewhere, to somewhere we will return.