Formula 1

[Johan!]

With the first issue I agree with Adriana.

It did happen quite some times before.

Mostly only by Ferrari though.

I shall name some events:

GP Austria 2001: Barrichello let's Schumacher pass in the final corner of the final lap to let Schumi move into 2nd place.

GP Austria 2002: Similar as in 2001, but know people make a lot more fuss about it, since it's not from 3 tot 2, but from 2 to 1.

GP USA 2002. Schumacher wants to pay back the Austria win, resulting in Barrichello passing him in the last meters, causing even more controversy.

After these events the FIA banned the use of team orders.

Still Massa helped Raikkonen in 2007 and the other way around in 2008, but that was a different situation (last race, only 1 of the 2 still fighting for the title).

I wouldn't like it if Alonso would win the championship, especially if the difference is 7 points or less.


On the Hamilton - Massa thing I agree with JP. Hamilton was the better racer throughout the season, though it was close. In the end blaming Timo Glock for burning his tyres and being passed by Hamilton in the last corner is stupid. The same could have happened with Massa.


And Vettel is talented, but his attitude and behaviour have gone downhill quite fast this year. He's Red Bull's precious star, gets all the advantages, like Webber's front wing when his is broken and still can not beat Webber over the course of the season. Also his strikes against Webber in Turkey and Button in Belgium were totally stupid.


 

[jplpool]

With the first issue I agree with Adriana.

It did happen quite some times before.

Mostly only by Ferrari though.

I shall name some events:

GP Austria 2001: Barrichello let's Schumacher pass in the final corner of the final lap to let Schumi move into 2nd place.

GP Austria 2002: Similar as in 2001, but know people make a lot more fuss about it, since it's not from 3 tot 2, but from 2 to 1.

GP USA 2002. Schumacher wants to pay back the Austria win, resulting in Barrichello passing him in the last meters, causing even more controversy.

After these events the FIA banned the use of team orders.

Yeah because we all know F1 started in 2001, so yeah I was wrong it's ALWAYS happened  If there's one thing we can take from this, or anything at all(did you see what I just did there?) then it's that the Italians are dirty cheating, spineless bastards-nothing new here folks, move along.(I make this statement in relation to sport-not Italian people in general)


Still Massa helped Raikkonen in 2007 and the other way around in 2008, but that was a different situation (last race, only 1 of the 2 still fighting for the title).

I wouldn't like it if Alonso would win the championship, especially if the difference is 7 points or less.


On the Hamilton - Massa thing I agree with JP. Hamilton was the better racer throughout the season, though it was close. In the end blaming Timo Glock for burning his tyres and being passed by Hamilton in the last corner is stupid. The same could have happened with Massa.

And let's not forget the fact that Glock was on the wrong tyres-Hamilton had to make an unplanned pitstop to make sure he had the right tyres to finish the race, if it was not for that pitstop, he would never have been behind Glock in the first place-infact if he never made that pitstop then it would have been Hamilton who had people overtaking him on the final lap(s)


And Vettel is talented, but his attitude and behaviour have gone downhill quite fast this year. He's Red Bull's precious star, gets all the advantages, like Webber's front wing when his is broken and still can not beat Webber over the course of the season. Also his strikes against Webber in Turkey and Button in Belgium were totally stupid.

Maybe he does have an attitude, but it's a fucking competitive sport for gods sake-I'd rather this attitude than "after you Claude, I'm just here to make up the numbers"

 

[rds.06]

Since I have been watching F1 teams orders have played a part. Most teams have done it, Coulthard had to move over for Hakkinen many times on his way to both his titles. Everyone knows about Schumacher over the years. I think Schumacher moved over for Irvine in a race when he was going for the title if I remember correctly. Massa let Kimi win to become world champion, there has always been a big question against Kovalainen leaving Hamilton past in Germany on his way to the title. The difference is Ferrai are so blunt about it and hence why they are hated for it. They could easily make it less obvious than they do. Its sucks but that's the way it is. I doubt Alonso will will win the title by 7 points but I also think Webber will pip him in the end with the help of Vettel  .

The ban on team orders only came into effect in 2001 after the Schumacher - Rubens incident.

[Johan!]

Team Orders in motor racing is a motorsport term for the practice of teams issuing instructions to drivers to deviate from the normal practice of racing against each other as they would against other teams' drivers. Prime examples of this are the team orders issued by Formula One teams to their drivers. This may involve instructing a driver to let his teammate overtake, or instructing both drivers to hold position in order to maintain a good position without the risk of collision.
This is generally done when one driver is behind in a particular race but ahead overall in a championship season. The team will then order their drivers to rearrange themselves on the track so as to give the championship points to the driver who needs them most. A good example is at the 2007 Brazilian Grand Prix, with Ferrari's Felipe Massa in no position to win the Drivers' Championship or move up from fourth, so at the second pit stop he yielded the lead to teammate Kimi Räikkönen, who went on to win the race and take the title by just one point. The very next year at the Chinese Grand Prix involving the same two drivers, Räikkönen wasn't in a position to win the title and moved over for Massa who was in position to win the title.
Another reason for team orders is where both drivers are in a position far ahead of the field, being all but assured of the win. Team orders are issued to prevent the drivers from racing each other; the aim is to have them drive cautiously in order to save fuel, reduce the chance of mechanical problems, and avoid a collision. This has happened on countless occasions in the history of the sport, sometimes causing great acrimony between the team and the second-placed driver. At the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix, when Ralf Schumacher was ordered not to overtake Damon Hill, in order to assure Jordan of a 1-2 finish.[1] Similar orders were issued at the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix but Didier Pironi ignored them and overtook Gilles Villeneuve, causing an intense argument between the two.

Damon Hill: I'm going to put something to you here, and I think you'd better listen to this.
If we race, if we two race, we could end up with nothing, so it's up to Eddie (Jordan).
If we don't race each other, we've got an opportunity to get a first and second, it's your choice.
Hill's radio message to the Jordan pitwall[2]

Team Orders in F1

Such orders were legal and expected historically in motor racing. In the early years of the Formula One World Championship it was even legal for a driver to give up his car during the race to the team leader if his car had broken down. See the 1957 British Grand Prix, for example.
In the late 1990s incidents of team orders began to be reported more prominently by the media and public reaction to the more blatant examples of their use became extremely negative (See the 1997 European Grand Prix and the 1998 Australian Grand Prix). In contrast, the 1997 Japanese Grand Prix saw a more sophisticated use of team orders, where Ferrari No2 Eddie Irvine began the race light on fuel, allowing him to get ahead of the superior Williams-Renault cars and hold them up, to the benefit of Ferrari No1 Michael Schumacher.
Since the turn of the century, the most notorious incidents of team orders have tended to centre on Ferrari. At the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Rubens Barrichello was ordered to allow Ferrari teammate Michael Schumacher to pass in order to obtain the win. This received huge amounts of negative attention from spectators and media, as the order was issued shortly before both drivers crossed the finish line (the switch occurring within metres of the finish line), and as Barrichello had dominated the entire race weekend. Schumacher refused to take the top step of the podium, insisting Barrichello take it. As team orders were legal in 2002, the only punishment the team received was for the breach of podium procedure.
At the United States Grand Prix that year, there was further controversy as the Ferrari drivers allegedly manipulated the race result by switching positions in the final few metres of the race, giving Barrichello the win by the record smallest margin of 0.011 seconds. Though Schumacher had largely dominated the US Grand Prix, some suggested that he was returning the favour to Barrichello for forfeiting the Austrian win.

Barrichello said "To win, it was very, very, very good.... I got to the last corner, I didn't know what to do and nothing has been said. Michael was just very kind to, you know, let us finish equally. I guess I pointed a little bit in front, but, you know, what can we say?" Schumacher said "The end of the race was not planned... We tried to cross the line together but failed by a tiny bit and in fact we did not know who had won until we got out of the cars. I just felt Rubens deserved to win this race."
Subsequently after the 2002 season, "Team Orders that could influence the outcome of a race" were banned in F1 regulations, although they are sometimes still implemented discreetly. For example, this has sometimes been achieved as easily as a team getting on the radio to the slower driver and pointing out that his teammate is quicker. The slower driver then lets the quicker driver through without the need for an overt "directive" from the team.
However a few years later at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, Schumacher was being challenged for the lead by Barrichello but the two were ordered to preserve their cars to the end of the race and settle into a steady pace. This effectively meant that Barrichello wasn't able to challenge Schumacher and assured Schumacher's and Ferrari's only victory of the season. But whether this was favouritism towards Schumacher or just a cautious approach to an easy victory is debatable.
At the 2010 German Grand Prix, Ferrari again caused controversy when Felipe Massa's race engineer was heard to say to his driver "Fernando (Alonso) is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand that message?". Moments later, Massa visibly eased back and allowed Alonso past. As team orders were banned, the team was fined $100,000. At a further hearing, the FIA imposed no further punishment, but conceded that the rule needed to be reviewed.

[jplpool]

Of course such incidents have taken place before, but it was fairly infrequent(compared to the last decade or so) but the fact still remains that it's against the fucking rules at the moment.

[Adriana Galore]

- I wonder why they call it a "teams" anyway?

- I didn't like Vettel from the moment he showed up. An arrogant prick in my view. I can't stand him.

- The 2008 championship was very close. I'm not a walking Formula 1 encyclopedia as you guys but I believe Hamilton
  won with only one point and Massa won more races? So correct me if I'm wrong. I like Massa. He is around for a long
  time and Hamilton just began; changes enough. That was a sad day for me. Plus I didn't like the Hamilton hype.

- I had a better video in my faves on YouTube but since they've reorginised...argh. ...remember this in 1998?
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHd8n1D4wkM
  I've been a huge McLaren fan but Mika was my fave but this made me sick. And since I read Coulthard's biography
  I've another view on Hakkinen. Whom I adored. But I loved them both. Especially David for obvious female reasons
   
 
I miss the old days of the colourful drivers. The rebels, the ones that caused a bit of controversy, the wild ones. Just as the first commenter on the video said. 

[Johan!]

I think we all agree that we don't like team orders. Let's hope Mark Webber beats Vettel on the track without stuff like that!

p.s. Hakkinen was let past because he was going to win all the way but something went wrong with communication and he came in for a pitstop when there was nothing going on. Since they made an agreement that whoever was first after the first corner Hakkinen was allowed to win. Not sure if Coulthard changed his story about it later though? (About the Australian GP in 1998)

[Adriana Galore]

I agree, I also hope Webber wins. I like the guy, he has always been a great driver and a great personality.

I'm gonna look it up in the David's biography but I believe he and Mika made the deal on beforehand David should favour him.
David's biography was interesting as an inside look in the F1 world as a whole and McLaren was not what I thought it was....

[Johan!]

Vettel quickest in FP 1, before Hamilton, Button, Webber, Kubica & Alonso.

[rds.06]

P2 had Hamailton fastest.

I still think it will be the Red Bulls 1&2 in q with maybe Hamilton ahead of Alonso. Alonso's engine is really on its last legs and I cant see him finishing in the top 2 if the Red Bulls dont fuck it up then Webber will be champion  .

[rds.06]

The grid is:

Vettel
Hamilton
Alonso
Button
Webber

Webber is going to need some drive 

[jplpool]

 the one thing Webber has in his favour, is that he has the better racing line(compared to Alonso) going into the first corner.

[rds.06]

Ya, it could all change at the start. Having said that Massa is right behind Webber and there is a chance that they can keep him out on a very long first stint to jump Webber at the first round of pit stops and then use him to back Webber up.

But Alonso's engine could blow and Webber might not make to much progress up the field and Vettel might win and be champion. Lots can happen yet. 

[jplpool]

*Wonders what the odds are of Massa smashing into the back of Webber  * 

[jplpool]

HAHAHAHA @ Alonso.  If confirmation was ever needed about how much of a Prick he is, then it's just been given in the shape of him having a go at Petrov for having the bare faced cheak to beat him.  What a Wanker.

Congratulations to Vettel-Now the youngest world champion ever!!