Drummer on Knockin' On Heaven's Door Days of Thunder Soundtrack

[evpangi]

Was it Steven or Matt? The drumming sounds "boomier" compared to UYI II version? I know that steven was on Civil War but you could really tell the drumming was different after that song.  I prefer steven's drumming over Matt's. It's groovier.

[illusion3]

Steven Adler

[Dark Globe]

Was it Steven or Matt? The drumming sounds "boomier" compared to UYI II version? I know that steven was on Civil War but you could really tell the drumming was different after that song.  I prefer steven's drumming over Matt's. It's groovier.

It is Matt Sorum.  See http://www.mattsorum.com/pages/bio.html.

[evpangi]

Thanks for the info.

[TommyFortus]

While we're sorta on the topic does anyone know if Steven wrote all of the UYI drum parts?

[ShePoutsHerBest]

While we're sorta on the topic does anyone know if Steven wrote all of the UYI drum parts?

Not likely, I am sure that when Matt came into the mix he just jammed with the guys and did his own thing but Adler was with the band while they worked on most of Use Your Illusion and was a part of the writing process

[tiv]

although i have no proof...i would bet "NO" steven had no input on the drumming on the uyi albums(with the obvious exception of civil war). i think steven was a great drummer for the appetite material, what matt played on the albums was beyond his abilities.  i personally don't care for matt as a drummer(i find him to be too mechanical and not enough 'feel'), but his technical abilities far surpass that of steven.

[TommyFortus]

although i have no proof...i would bet "NO" steven had no input on the drumming on the uyi albums(with the obvious exception of civil war). i think steven was a great drummer for the appetite material, what matt played on the albums was beyond his abilities.  i personally don't care for matt as a drummer(i find him to be too mechanical and not enough 'feel'), but his technical abilities far surpass that of steven.

Dude Steven could play anything on the UYI's and I'm fairly sure Matt didn't write anything I think it was either Steve or Duff

[dave-gnfnr2k]

 The songs were written before Matt joined. Steven wrote them. Matt could have added to what was there but steven had the basis of the songs. Dont forget a lot of the UYI songs were written in like 85-89.

You want to hear Steven Drumming on UYI songs, listen to the demos like Dont Cry, Back off bitch, the pretty tied up with izzy on vocals.

[tiv]

Dude Steven could play anything on the UYI's and I'm fairly sure Matt didn't write anything I think it was either Steve or Duff

evidently your not a drummer. if you were you'd understand that being physically able to play something, and being able to properly pull something off(i'm talking about emotion here-how the drums move the music), is something completely different. steven adler was NOTHING when he was booted out. his best days were behind him. THAT'S WHY HE WAS FUCKING KICKED OUT! use your head before making a comment.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

evidently your not a drummer. if you were you'd understand that being physically able to play something, and being able to properly pull something off(i'm talking about emotion here-how the drums move the music), is something completely different. steven adler was NOTHING when he was booted out. his best days were behind him. THAT'S WHY HE WAS FUCKING KICKED OUT! use your head before making a comment.

Check your facts. Adler was still a good drummer, he was just too fucked up on drugs to actually do it.
There is a difference. If he could have stayed clean, he could have performed the songs. 

[TommyFortus]

evidently your not a drummer. if you were you'd understand that being physically able to play something, and being able to properly pull something off(i'm talking about emotion here-how the drums move the music), is something completely different. steven adler was NOTHING when he was booted out. his best days were behind him. THAT'S WHY HE WAS FUCKING KICKED OUT! use your head before making a comment.

Hey dumbarse read the comment above me. DRUGS FUCK PEOPLE UP. Steven was capable he just nedded to get clean, which he didn't

[.slash.]

steven may have writen most of the drums, he may not, all i know is he most definatly wrote Civil War, YCBM, and i would think Dont Cry

[baz1]

i never hear that version....and i thought that the only diference was in the lyrics....guess i am wrong

[fuckethead]

Matt wrote all his own parts on the Illusion cd's. Steven was jammin the tunes during the " song writing process" but when it came time to tracking and recording the song Matt played and recorded his parts. Im sure tempos and certain grooves were the same cause in some cases they would need to be to keep the song on track. But Matt didnt play drums that Steven put to those songs, it was ideas and beats that he saw fit. Think Estranged it could'nt be further away from Steven's style, just more proof that Matt wrote these parts.

[TommyFortus]

Why is Matt not credited as a writer and Steven is?

[Dark Globe]

Why is Matt not credited as a writer and Steven is?

Because Matt didn't write any of the songs; Steven co-wrote one song.  There is a difference between writing a drum part or a bass part or a guitar part, and writing the lyrics or melody or chord progression of a song.  I think for GN'R, the credits always reflected the latter group, not the former.

[XMr.BrownstoneX]

Because Matt didn't write any of the songs; Steven co-wrote one song.  There is a difference between writing a drum part or a bass part or a guitar part, and writing the lyrics or melody or chord progression of a song.  I think for GN'R, the credits always reflected the latter group, not the former.

[XMr.BrownstoneX]

were can i find that version of KOHD

[machinegunlotus]

were can i find that version of KOHD

On the Days Of Thunder soundtrack, which overall is a pretty cheesy soundtrack. Best thing on it is David Coverdale's The Last Note Of Freedom, written by none other than Blly Idol, though the production sounds a bit dated now.

[SONOFABITCH]

I always wondered if Steven rehearsed Coma.  That would be interesting to know.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Matt wrote all his own parts on the Illusion cd's. Steven was jammin the tunes during the " song writing process" but when it came time to tracking and recording the song Matt played and recorded his parts. Im sure tempos and certain grooves were the same cause in some cases they would need to be to keep the song on track. But Matt didnt play drums that Steven put to those songs, it was ideas and beats that he saw fit. Think Estranged it could'nt be further away from Steven's style, just more proof that Matt wrote these parts.

Didnt you listen to what I said.
The songs were written before Matt joined. Steven wrote them. Matt could have added to what was there but steven had the basis of the songs. Dont forget a lot of the UYI songs were written in like 85-89. Listen to the demos like dont cry, back off bitch, the ones that were written when adler was still in the band. The songs have the same drums ryhtems as they do on UYI. So that means that Steven wrote them. Like I said the drum parts were already in place before matt got there. He prob fixed them up but he didnt write them.  It really doesnt matter since drumming and bass doenst mean crap for writing credits.

[XMr.BrownstoneX]

On the Days Of Thunder soundtrack, which overall is a pretty cheesy soundtrack. Best thing on it is David Coverdale's The Last Note Of Freedom, written by none other than Blly Idol, though the production sounds a bit dated now.

found it

[Dark Globe]

Didnt you listen to what I said.
The songs were written before Matt joined. Steven wrote them. Matt could have added to what was there but steven had the basis of the songs. Dont forget a lot of the UYI songs were written in like 85-89. Listen to the demos like dont cry, back off bitch, the ones that were written when adler was still in the band. The songs have the same drums ryhtems as they do on UYI. So that means that Steven wrote them. Like I said the drum parts were already in place before matt got there. He prob fixed them up but he didnt write them.  It really doesnt matter since drumming and bass doenst mean crap for writing credits.

I think things were a bit more fluid than that.  Matt was definitely instructed on how to play certain songs (ex. November Rain).  And he was probably given the Steven demos to get familiar with the songs.  But most of his beats were probably worked out with the band during rehearsals and recording.  It could be the band (especially Duff) led Matt to play the same beats, but I doubt Matt sat down with Steven's demos and transcribed them, or even practiced with them very much.  That is just not how a band works.  And there are definitely differences in some of the Steven demos and the UYI versions by Matt.  Just like Gilby learned the songs, but played them differently than Izzy did.

And as far as song-writing credit goes, if the drums or bass on a certain song create a main melody or hook, then the drummer or bassist should be given song-writing credit.  For example, see "My Friend Of Misery" on Metallica's Black album.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I think things were a bit more fluid than that.  Matt was definitely instructed on how to play certain songs (ex. November Rain).  And he was probably given the Steven demos to get familiar with the songs.  But most of his beats were probably worked out with the band during rehearsals and recording.  It could be the band (especially Duff) led Matt to play the same beats, but I doubt Matt sat down with Steven's demos and transcribed them, or even practiced with them very much.  That is just not how a band works.  And there are definitely differences in some of the Steven demos and the UYI versions by Matt.  Just like Gilby learned the songs, but played them differently than Izzy did.

And as far as song-writing credit goes, if the drums or bass on a certain song create a main melody or hook, then the drummer or bassist should be given song-writing credit.  For example, see "My Friend Of Misery" on Metallica's Black album.

Gilby may have played the songs diff than izzy but that doesnt mean that Gibly would get credit for song writing. Steven provided the template for the drums and matt went off of that. That is why steven wrote most of them. That is how it works.

As for song writting credits. Drum and rythmn dont count for song writing credits unless the band wants them to.

Song writing credit is broken down by lyrics are 50% and melody is 50% anything else doenst count unless the band does.  Yes bass can, if that is the main melody but 99% of the time unless your primus it the bass wont have the main melody. That is why axl gets free credit for nov rain and estranged. He wrote the melody and the lyrics. Slash added great solos and riffs but those dont count.

[Dark Globe]

Gilby may have played the songs diff than izzy but that doesnt mean that Gibly would get credit for song writing. Steven provided the template for the drums and matt went off of that. That is why steven wrote most of them. That is how it works.

As for song writting credits. Drum and rythmn dont count for song writing credits unless the band wants them to.

Song writing credit is broken down by lyrics are 50% and melody is 50% anything else doenst count unless the band does.  Yes bass can, if that is the main melody but 99% of the time unless your primus it the bass wont have the main melody. That is why axl gets free credit for nov rain and estranged. He wrote the melody and the lyrics. Slash added great solos and riffs but those dont count.

Your problem is that you are confusing song-writing and performance/arrangement.  The notion that because Steven played drums on demos before Matt recorded them for the album, therefore Steven wrote the song - that is just wrong.  It is just like the Izzy/Gilby thing.  No, Gilby gets no song-writing credit for his contributions.  But he certainly changed some of the guitar performance/arrangements from what Izzy had done.  Izzy's song-writing credit is completely separate from his guitar performance/arrangements.  The same applies for Steven and Matt.

Maybe you're getting confused by the fact that for AFD and Lies, the band gave song-writing credits to all five members, whereas on UYI they did it by writer only.  For example, Slash/Duff/Steven had nothing to do with writing Anything Goes, but they got song-writing credit for it anyway.  Doesn't mean they actually wrote it.  That was just a business decision (kind of like how every Beatles song written by Lennon or McCartney is credited Lennon/McCartney, regardless of whether both guys wrote the song or just one).  I think that the members of GN'R generally prepared their own performance/arrangement during recording sessions (other than the instances where we know they didn't, like Matt's drumming on November Rain).

As for how song-writing credit normally works, go read what I wrote again.  It matches your explanation (although you shouldn't forget, musicians get song-writing credits separate from their performance/arrangement, like how Duff wrote So Fine or how Matt wrote the main guitar riff to Velvet Revolver's Set Me Free).

[XMr.BrownstoneX]

 

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Your problem is that you are confusing song-writing and performance/arrangement.  The notion that because Steven played drums on demos before Matt recorded them for the album, therefore Steven wrote the song - that is just wrong.  It is just like the Izzy/Gilby thing.  No, Gilby gets no song-writing credit for his contributions.  But he certainly changed some of the guitar performance/arrangements from what Izzy had done.  Izzy's song-writing credit is completely separate from his guitar performance/arrangements.  The same applies for Steven and Matt.

Maybe you're getting confused by the fact that for AFD and Lies, the band gave song-writing credits to all five members, whereas on UYI they did it by writer only.  For example, Slash/Duff/Steven had nothing to do with writing Anything Goes, but they got song-writing credit for it anyway.  Doesn't mean they actually wrote it.  That was just a business decision (kind of like how every Beatles song written by Lennon or McCartney is credited Lennon/McCartney, regardless of whether both guys wrote the song or just one).  I think that the members of GN'R generally prepared their own performance/arrangement during recording sessions (other than the instances where we know they didn't, like Matt's drumming on November Rain).

As for how song-writing credit normally works, go read what I wrote again.  It matches your explanation (although you shouldn't forget, musicians get song-writing credits separate from their performance/arrangement, like how Duff wrote So Fine or how Matt wrote the main guitar riff to Velvet Revolver's Set Me Free).

You dont know what  you are talking about. Adler was fired from gnr because he couldnt perform the songs in the studio. It took him 30 or 40 takes just to do civil war when they were working on that nobodies child album that Axl had to piece together.

AFter that they went into the studio to record UYI and Adler was always high. The songs were already written at that point. They just had to record them. Adler was then fired and Sorum was brought in to record the album. He didnt write with the band.  Anything he may have written he just improved upon what Adler already wrote.  Why cant you understand that?

As for AFD, on the booklet they credit everyone but they also had it written down for who the true song writers were for royalties. And it went like this

Welcome to the Jungle -                 
                                                         
  Music :  Slash, Rose                         
  Lyrics :  Rose                                   

It's So Easy -                                   
                                                         
  Music :  McKagan, Arkeen               
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Arkeen               

Nightrain -                                     

  Music :  Stradlin', McKagan, Rose, Slash
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Rose

Out Ta Get Me -

  Music :  Slash, Rose, Stradlin' 
  Lyrics :  Rose, Stradlin'

Mr. Brownstone -

  Music :  Stradlin', Slash
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Paradise City -

  Music :  McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose, McKagan

My Michelle -

  Music :  Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

Think About You -

  Music :  Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Sweet Child O' Mine -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

You're Crazy -

  Music : Slash, Stradlin', Rose
  Lyrics : Rose, Stradlin'

Anything Goes -

  Music :  Stradlin', Rose, Webber
  Lyrics :  Stradlin', Rose

Rocket Queen -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

[Dark Globe]

You dont know what  you are talking about. Adler was fired from gnr because he couldnt perform the songs in the studio. It took him 30 or 40 takes just to do civil war when they were working on that nobodies child album that Axl had to piece together.

AFter that they went into the studio to record UYI and Adler was always high. The songs were already written at that point. They just had to record them. Adler was then fired and Sorum was brought in to record the album. He didnt write with the band.  Anything he may have written he just improved upon what Adler already wrote.  Why cant you understand that?

As for AFD, on the booklet they credit everyone but they also had it written down for who the true song writers were for royalties. And it went like this

Welcome to the Jungle -                 
                                                         
  Music :  Slash, Rose                         
  Lyrics :  Rose                                   

It's So Easy -                                   
                                                         
  Music :  McKagan, Arkeen               
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Arkeen               

Nightrain -                                     

  Music :  Stradlin', McKagan, Rose, Slash
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Rose

Out Ta Get Me -

  Music :  Slash, Rose, Stradlin' 
  Lyrics :  Rose, Stradlin'

Mr. Brownstone -

  Music :  Stradlin', Slash
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Paradise City -

  Music :  McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose, McKagan

My Michelle -

  Music :  Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

Think About You -

  Music :  Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Sweet Child O' Mine -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

You're Crazy -

  Music : Slash, Stradlin', Rose
  Lyrics : Rose, Stradlin'

Anything Goes -

  Music :  Stradlin', Rose, Webber
  Lyrics :  Stradlin', Rose

Rocket Queen -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

I see you are as dense as ever.

Steven Adler did not write a single released song for Guns N' Roses.  Period.  Neither did Matt Sorum.

Steven Adler did perform/arrange drums on a number of the UYI songs in the demo phase.  That does not mean that he is the be-all-end-all for how the songs were performed/arranged on the album by Matt.  Yes, the songs were already written when Matt joined the band, but Matt did his own performances/arrnagements (other than when he was instructed to play certain beats by the band).  Maybe some of his performances/arrangements were based on what Steven did, maybe some of them were based on what the band wanted, maybe he developed some of them himself.  But your argument that Steven wrote the songs is just wrong (as per your listing below) and your argument that Matt only played what Steven arranged is wrong (go compare recordings).

[Dark Globe]

Also, your theory doesn't explain what Matt did for the songs that had no demos.  Certainly Steven didn't write down what he was playing, so how exactly do you think Matt based his playing on Steven?  He didn't.  Like every other song, he worked with the band to develop a pocket with the rhythm section that best fit the song.  I suspect that Duff was more influential on Matt's UYI playing than Steven was.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I see you are as dense as ever.

Steven Adler did not write a single released song for Guns N' Roses.  Period.  Neither did Matt Sorum.

Steven Adler did perform/arrange drums on a number of the UYI songs in the demo phase.  That does not mean that he is the be-all-end-all for how the songs were performed/arranged on the album by Matt.  Yes, the songs were already written when Matt joined the band, but Matt did his own performances/arrnagements (other than when he was instructed to play certain beats by the band).  Maybe some of his performances/arrangements were based on what Steven did, maybe some of them were based on what the band wanted, maybe he developed some of them himself.  But your argument that Steven wrote the songs is just wrong (as per your listing below) and your argument that Matt only played what Steven arranged is wrong (go compare recordings).

You and your semantics. Get a clue. Steven can write the drums parts, just like duff can write his bass parts. But they dont get credit for it. It still doenst mean they didnt write them. Are you fucking stupid? Matt joined in July and the band recorded the UYIs in Sept or Oct.

The drums were already set down. Matt just did what was there and added his own to the blue print. You think he completely started over and scrapped everything adler had down? You think when gnr wrote the songs they just didnt do the drums until they went into the studio and just had the drummers wing it?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Also, your theory doesn't explain what Matt did for the songs that had no demos.  Certainly Steven didn't write down what he was playing, so how exactly do you think Matt based his playing on Steven?  He didn't.  Like every other song, he worked with the band to develop a pocket with the rhythm section that best fit the song.  I suspect that Duff was more influential on Matt's UYI playing than Steven was.

Just because we dont have the demos from 89-90 doenst mean they dont exist. Using your logic, songs like this I love dont exist because we dont have the demo for it from 1992.

[Dark Globe]

You and your semantics. Get a clue. Steven can write the drums parts, just like duff can write his bass parts. But they dont get credit for it. It still doenst mean they didnt write them. Are you fucking stupid?

Just because we dont have the demos from 89-90 doenst mean they dont exist. Using your logic, songs like this I love dont exist because we dont have the demo for it from 1992.

You state your opinions like they are facts.  They aren't.  Fact is, you have no clue whether demos exist for all of the UYI songs.  You have no clue what demos were actually played for Matt and which ones weren't.  You have no clue what the band members told Matt to play (other than what has been said in interviews, like NR) and what songs Matt was given complete freedom on.  You just assume that because the songs were written and rehearsed when Steven was in the band, therefore Steven wrote the drum parts, and no one can change what he wrote.  But your assumptions are not facts.

By your logic, Duff wrote the bass part for YCBM, so therefore Duff wrote Tommy's part even though Tommy plays it completely differently than Duff did.  Same for the rhythm guitar parts that Gilby took over from Izzy.  I just don't see how you can claim that because the songs pre-existed certain members, those members' performances were created by the former members.

To make this simple for you (which it appears I have to do), Steven did write a drum part for Back Off Bitch.  But that does not mean that Matt used Steven's drum part.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.  Neither one of us knows for sure.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

You state your opinions like they are facts.  They aren't.  Fact is, you have no clue whether demos exist for all of the UYI songs.  You have no clue what demos were actually played for Matt and which ones weren't.  You have no clue what the band members told Matt to play (other than what has been said in interviews, like NR) and what songs Matt was given complete freedom on.  You just assume that because the songs were written and rehearsed when Steven was in the band, therefore Steven wrote the drum parts, and no one can change what he wrote.  But your assumptions are not facts.

By your logic, Duff wrote the bass part for YCBM, so therefore Duff wrote Tommy's part even though Tommy plays it completely differently than Duff did.  Same for the rhythm guitar parts that Gilby took over from Izzy.  I just don't see how you can claim that because the songs pre-existed certain members, those members' performances were created by the former members.

To make this simple for you (which it appears I have to do), Steven did write a drum part for Back Off Bitch.  But that does not mean that Matt used Steven's drum part.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.  Neither one of us knows for sure.

You really dont have a clue what you are talking about. Ill use your YCMB stupid logic. Duff wrote the bass for YCMB but tommy plays a slight varation of his bass line. Its still duffs base line and duff still wrote it, tommy is just playing it a tad different. That doesnt make it tommys bass line now. Its still duffs that tommy is playing since its still sounds pretty much the same.

If you want to play semantics FINE.  On UYI Matt sampled stevens drum parts on UYI but changed them just a bit to fit his style.   

Take Gnrs LALD or KOHD, they dont play it exactally the same way the orginal artist did yet the writing credits dont change now do  they. Using your logic they would

Anyway I am done with this, you dont have a clue. Like I said, steven wrote drum parts for UYI and Matt used most of  them and added his own style to them also. Its that simple.

If you really think for the UYIs the songs were all written but the drums before they entered the studio, then they wrote the drum parts you are a fool, that is not how songs are written.

Also for all we know duff could have written a lot of the drum parts but the point is, the drum parts were already there on the songs and matt just used the blue prints.

[Dark Globe]

You really dont have a clue what you are talking about. Ill use your YCMB stupid logic. Duff wrote the bass for YCMB but tommy plays a slight varation of his bass line. Its still duffs base line and duff still wrote it, tommy is just playing it a tad different. That doesnt make it tommys bass line now. Its still duffs that tommy is playing since its still sounds pretty much the same.

If you want to play semantics FINE.  On UYI Matt sampled stevens drum parts on UYI but changed them just a bit to fit his style.   

Take Gnrs LALD or KOHD, they dont play it exactally the same way the orginal artist did yet the writing credits dont change now do  they. Using your logic they would

Anyway I am done with this, you dont have a clue. Like I said, steven wrote drum parts for UYI and Matt used most of  them and added his own style to them also. Its that simple.

If you really think for the UYIs the songs were all written but the drums before they entered the studio, then they wrote the drum parts you are a fool, that is not how songs are written.

Also for all we know duff could have written a lot of the drum parts but the point is, the drum parts were already there on the songs and matt just used the blue prints.

My last post on the topic too...we agree this should end.

Now I think we agree that performance of an instrument on a recording does not equal song-writing.  Good.  That is why song writing credits don't change on the covers.  Good for you for figuring that out.  In case you haven't realized it yet (even though I said it in my last few posts), there is a difference between song-writing and playing a track on a recording (what I'd dub performance or arrangement, depending on the instrumentation).  As the UYI liner notes and your previous post on AFD prove, Steven did not "write" any of the songs.  All he did was play them with the band and, in some instances, record them.  But his parts were performance, not song-writing.

Now your notion that Duff "wrote" Tommy's bass line for YCBM is simply wrong.  Tommy took the chord progression of the song (as written by Izzy and Axl) and he performs to it.  Just like Duff did when Izzy and Axl first showed him the song.  Any musician worth his guitar pick can tell that Tommy is playing a completely different riff in the YCBM intro than Duff did.  It may sound the same to your ears, but it is different.  To credit Duff for Tommy's performance in this instance makes no sense whatsoever.

Now I personally have no idea whether Matt studied Steven's performances on the demos and copied his drum parts, or just played his own.  Neither do you.  Your insistent belief that because Steven played drums on the songs before Matt did, therefore Steve "wrote" the drum parts, end of story - that just shows your ignorance as to how a band works.  Especially a band like GN'R circa 1990.

[tiv]

speaking as a someone who has been playing drums in bands over the last 20 years i'd like to clarify what i think "Dak Globe' is trying to say.

in the past i have joined bands that had previously written/recorded music. in every case i was always given cd's or tapes, to listen and become familiar with the songs. when i say 'familiar', what i am referring to is tempos, time changes, where the verse moves into the chorus, etc. when it came time to sit down with the band...i played what i wanted to play. the song's drum part became mine. i kept the structure of the songs the way the main songwriters intended them. i played the tempos as i had been instructed, but what came from my hands and feet was completely of my making. no one in the band, the band's fans or even the previous drummer(i play in a very tight knit music scene-everyone knows each other fairly well) ever told what i was playing was wrong. on the flip side...if i left a band and another drummer took over they made the songs their own as well.

when it comes to straight ahead rock music there is a huge amount of freedom one can have with the drum parts of a song, while still keeping with the integrity of the material. guns n roses is not a band like Rush where the drumming dictates how the song is written or arranged. that's not to say that some guns song don't have drum parts that are essential(the middle piece of welcome to the jungle comes to mind), i just highly doubt that axl, slash, and duff sat down with matt and said, 'here's the songs matt, just copy what steven was doing'. it was probably more along the lines of...'here the songs we are planning on recording. do your thing and we'll let you know if there is a problem'. given matt's background as a working musician, and his abilities, i find it highly improbable that he was forced to just recreate what steven was having trouble getting accomplished.

[Dark Globe]

speaking as a someone who has been playing drums in bands over the last 20 years i'd like to clarify what i think "Dak Globe' is trying to say.

in the past i have joined bands that had previously written/recorded music. in every case i was always given cd's or tapes, to listen and become familiar with the songs. when i say 'familiar', what i am referring to is tempos, time changes, where the verse moves into the chorus, etc. when it came time to sit down with the band...i played what i wanted to play. the song's drum part became mine. i kept the structure of the songs the way the main songwriters intended them. i played the tempos as i had been instructed, but what came from my hands and feet was completely of my making. no one in the band, the band's fans or even the previous drummer(i play in a very tight knit music scene-everyone knows each other fairly well) ever told what i was playing was wrong. on the flip side...if i left a band and another drummer took over they made the songs their own as well.

when it comes to straight ahead rock music there is a huge amount of freedom one can have with the drum parts of a song, while still keeping with the integrity of the material. guns n roses is not a band like Rush where the drumming dictates how the song is written or arranged. that's not to say that some guns song don't have drum parts that are essential(the middle piece of welcome to the jungle comes to mind), i just highly doubt that axl, slash, and duff sat down with matt and said, 'here's the songs matt, just copy what steven was doing'. it was probably more along the lines of...'here the songs we are planning on recording. do your thing and we'll let you know if there is a problem'. given matt's background as a working musician, and his abilities, i find it highly improbable that he was forced to just recreate what steven was having trouble getting accomplished.

Thank you for being more eloquent in your description than I.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Globe its still writing, they just dont get credit for it.  God. Take the estranged solo, slash wrote it but he doenst get credit for it. Btw I mispoke when I said YCMB i meant its so easy.

[Dark Globe]

Globe its still writing, they just dont get credit for it.  God. Take the estranged solo, slash wrote it but he doenst get credit for it. Btw I mispoke when I said YCMB i meant its so easy.

I thought we agreed to drop it.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I thought we agreed to drop it.

We did, but this was talking about writing credits 

[Dark Globe]

We did, but this was talking about writing credits 

As we discussed earlier, most folks don't give writing credit to instrumentation/performance, just to lyrics and chord progressions/main melodies.  Now Estranged is an example where, for the guitar hooks, I could see giving Slash credit, and I could see not.  It was the band's choice.  But I don't think many bands would give writing credit for a regular guitar solo, or for a bass line, or drum line.  And just because one performer performs (or as you says, "writes" even though much of what we are listening to is improvised) a song a certain way doesn't mean that the next performer is just copying the first performer's performance.

I agree that Tommy is basically copying Duff on the ISE intro, or that Matt was basically copying Steven when he did Mr. Brownstone, but that is a huge leap from your position that because Steven played drums on the songs before Matt did, therefore Steve "wrote" the drum parts, end of story.

[TZT]

I see you are as dense as ever.

Steven Adler did not write a single released song for Guns N' Roses.  Period.  Neither did Matt Sorum.

no, he didn't wrote a song but he co-wroted almost every song. guns n roses wasn't a one man or a two men band, their greatness came from the teamwork of the five original members. izzy or slash or someone else came around with an idea or an basic song structure and the whole band worked it out. it doesn't matter if matt added his own drums to the uyi songs or not, the songs are mostly that great because axl, slash, izzy, duff AND steven worked them out. matt was just a hired paycheck artist who came into the band to play the songs and to record them with his style. in the beginning the band just wanted to have matt for the recording and was thinking about getting steven back after that. afd or the uyi's wouldn't sound the same, maybe even wouldn't exist if the band was founded with matt.

[Dark Globe]

no, he didn't wrote a song but he co-wroted almost every song. guns n roses wasn't a one man or a two men band, their greatness came from the teamwork of the five original members. izzy or slash or someone else came around with an idea or an basic song structure and the whole band worked it out. it doesn't matter if matt added his own drums to the uyi songs or not, the songs are mostly that great because axl, slash, izzy, duff AND steven worked them out. matt was just a hired paycheck artist who came into the band to play the songs and to record them with his style. in the beginning the band just wanted to have matt for the recording and was thinking about getting steven back after that. afd or the uyi's wouldn't sound the same, maybe even wouldn't exist if the band was founded with matt.

Apparently you didn't bother to read any of the previous posts, which draw a distinction between song-writing and performance.  While Steven's performance in the early rehearsals most definitely did shape how the rest of the band developed their performance (and possibly the arrangements of the songs), that doesn't make him a song-writer of those songs.  As evidenced by the credits in the liner notes of the UYI albums.

Don't get me wrong, I am not downplaying Steven's influence on the UYI songs.  But I refuse to downplay Matt's influence.

[zepsun]

I like steve too...Appetite wouldn't be the same without him...but UYIs would not have been what they are without Matt...think Locomotive...all those intricate little time changes...that wasn't steven's style...